Yeah, it sure is an irrational phobia that is hard to weed out.
Your Rwanda argument says it all - WTS was happy to let Malawians rot in hell, while their 1919 tennis-match prison spell was touted as captivity by the Great Babba.
Compared with the last 1500 years, the pope has really cleaned up his act though.
Did you know his cousin is a JW over in Australia? She commented in an aussie newspaper on how he had praised the WTS in a private telephone conversation with her.
Last thing I heard on this board is that UFO's with demons, disguised as aliens, will be landing soon in order to team up with the pope - all made to perfectly correspond with "dovetailed" scriptures…
The plot is thickening…
Theo
Van Gogh
JoinedPosts by Van Gogh
-
13
Fulfillment of Prophecy
by daniel-p inok, i'm going to try to phrase this as articulately as i can - i'm not completely sure what i'm asking here, but if you have any thoughts on the matter please comment.
my question is this: do you ever feel like all that wt prophecy about the fall of babylon makes sense when you watch the news or read the newspaper?
sometimes a member of my family or a friend will rattle off on some bit of news they heard regarding the pope or a country's leader that seems to fall in line with the watchtower's take on revelation and i get all alarmed and alert - sort of a subconscious reaction.
-
-
Van Gogh
-
12
One less thing I could get df'd for!
by Deleted inwell, if exit polls are grounds to call the presidency just hours into the vote count then i can conclude that in only 3 days of quitting the tobacco habit that this it!.
7 years ago when i left the borg i started smoking cigars, as it went well with scotch, and was deliciously a naughty thing to do after 18 years in the cult(ure).
i started to inhale, as i am prone to do, and then concluded i would be better off with cigarettes.
-
-
Van Gogh
I didn't know scotch went well with cigars.
Will have to give it a try as well... -
37
Anyone take up smoking after leaving the borg?
by AK - Jeff ini still consider it a bad habit with health concerns.
but i am honestly attracted to the idea of a pipe and cherry tobacco.. i have joked of it some with wifey, but not too serious.
maybe though just an occasional pipe or a cuban would be ok?.
-
-
Van Gogh
Now, what makes you ask a stupid insinuating question like that..!?
Seriously now, giving up my cigars was about the hardest thing I did when I came back in 13 years ago. They always were a great way to settle into a meditative writing and studying mode. And do so again I might add...
I think that for many exjdubs, taking up some kind of smoking is a great ACT of resistance - a statement of independence.
(BTW, tetrapod, IMHO health freaks die young because they eat too much bread/carbohydrates/soy-protein instead of animal protein and lots of healthy fats.)
Theo -
29
Shunned by a JW leading a double life
by misspeaches ini seriously do not understand how some people reason.
if they do reason at all.. my boyfriend has been friends with a couple of guys since highschool.
it turns out that both these guys are jw's.
-
-
Van Gogh
Misspeaches,
I think swalker and the others are right on the mark, BUT, curlygirl has a great point too.
I would follow swalker's advice and try to defuse the situation. If you don't, the tactics curly mentioned might be set in motion.
I have been in a situation recently you wouldn't believe. I can't get into any detail here - a close friend of mine could get hurt here as well.
Over dinner with a glass of wine, I made the suggestion to somebody to read a well-known American eastern philosophy self-help book. "This person" commented on how the GB didn't allow such meditation stuff. I was stupid enough to make some off-the-cuff remarks on the relative position of the GB. I literally got 30-min pledge of allegiance to the GB. The next day this person contacted several people about me and proceeded to report me to his/her PO... Now, I could really get this person disfellowshipped (if I wanted to) in no time for something - concrete proof and all - I obviously cannot be specific about. I am powerless because my defense would take a close friend down in the process.
I agree with inquiryman's comment that any hint of treason might present them with the opportunity to balance their behavior with assuming the role of a righteous King or priest cleaning out the idol worshippers from the temple - apart from covering their own tracks of course.
Theo -
13
Is this a valid point about Bible prophecies?
by apple78 inok, forgive me if this sounds silly but it came to me today.
people keep talking about the earth and its disasters and the fulfilling of prophecies and end times.
but is there a counter argument to these prophecies?
-
-
Van Gogh
Thanx stillawitness. I like you too.
-
13
Is this a valid point about Bible prophecies?
by apple78 inok, forgive me if this sounds silly but it came to me today.
people keep talking about the earth and its disasters and the fulfilling of prophecies and end times.
but is there a counter argument to these prophecies?
-
-
Van Gogh
IMO, we as human beings are all impressionable by our very nature. We all probably live in some sort of matrix, but that should IMO be even more of an incentive to, at least, try to be aware of this, and to learn the art of critical thought. Because of their personal JW experiences, people on this forum IMHO are making a daily effort to refine this art, each in his/her own way.
You might want to have a look at the Amazon info on: "Sign of the Last Days When," by Carl O. Jonsson.
Although already about twenty years old (considering the subject matter, its age might actually be an endorsement), it is written from the perspective of a former Jehovah's Witness and their teachings. They are already world champion in failing eschatology anyway, but he does manage to further defuse their particular brand of scare mongering. Understanding failing JW eschatology would serve to illustrate your problem. Interestingly, critical thinking was always discouraged by The Watchtower-JW.
Theo
-
63
Aliens/UFO's...Do You Believe In Them?
by Legolas in.
after reading another thread it got me thinking...how many here believe in aliens?
have you ever seen a ufo?
-
-
Van Gogh
This is an Amazon customer-review of “Alien Encounters”, by Chuck Missler and Mark Eastman: Chuck and Mark hit a bullseye!, March 14, 2004:
“I admit, the implications in this book are too much to handle, and at first glance, it can seem like ridiculous speculation. BUT, I am very familiar with other teachings of Chuck Missler from the website www.khouse.org, and know for certain that he is entirely Biblical, born-again, and sincere. It is evident that God has chosen NOT to tell us a lot about angels and demons, but he has given us some very interesting pieces of info throughout the Bible, and Chuck and Mark have beautifully dovetailed these scriptures with other weird stuff from our present culture---and guess what---it all fits together into an end-times scenario that really makes sense! This book might be the vaccine that will alert and save thousands of skeptics when the end-times finally arrive. Someone once said, "a god small enough to fit inside your head is not big enough to meet your need" (or something like that). The message of this book is like this--a bit too much for my head, but I'm content with that. The conclusions are incredible, weird, and true (IMHO)---but so is the incarnation, the trinity, the atonement, the rapture, the resurrection, heaven and hell, etc. etc. I know it sounds like a Hollywood mix of Star Wars, The Matrix, and Men in Black, but hey, God is far more creative than that....
Get this book--you will want your skeptical friends to have a copy too.Watch the tower,
Exjdubs sincerely believed a great story that had all the answers, dovetailing all the bible texts together. It predicted with great certainty and in great detail what was going to happen in the near future - an end-times scenario that really seemed to make sense! It explained exactly what to do in order to live beyond that near future. Actually there were several stories, each consisting of several future scenarios. And the jdubs believed them all – until they stopped believing them. Suddenly they were left empty handed. So you could be preaching to some fertile territory. The only problem is that many may have become somewhat too cynical by now.
Interestingly, when checking out some of the material published by the proponents of the demon/alien eschatology on amazon.com, I noticed that some of them substantiate their teaching with pyramid measurements….in modern-day inches… Now, where have I heard that before..?
Theo
-
43
You cannot live forever in paradise on earth
by Gopher inthe watchtower society has, for about seven decades, been attracting new volunteer workers for its field ministry with the promise of life forever on a paradise earth.
even the titles of its main study books since 1968 bear the promise: the truth that leads to eternal life, you can live forever in paradise on earth, and knowledge that leads to everlasting life.
how logical is this hope that leads people to entrust the watchtower with their time, energy and worldly possessions?
-
-
Van Gogh
If you hold the bible to be true and want to start doubting again, then look at this exegesis from the Unitarian Church:
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=113 )
The Unitarian Church does not accept the Trinity doctrine and they not believe in any heavenly hope.
Introduction to their basics:
http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=302
Scriftural explanation:
http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=299
Sweet dreams (who knows?)
Theo -
18
Seriously though, how CAN the WTBTS Book Publishing Corp...
by sf in...stop the information that the marvelous tool the internet provides all who seek its inner workings?.
what will they actually be able to do about the momentum of facts, backed by documents and other evidence, that seem to be gaining at a faster pace these days?.
would they, could they actually hear a miraculous voice that of jehovah telling them that the internet is a tool of satan and then produce a scripture the flock would see as divine guidance through the gb, thus through a new article {new light} that they must give it up completely?.
-
-
Van Gogh
Amen Genesis and welcome,
"Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings :} hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies..."
Theo -
36
Two classes of Christians after all?
by Narkissos infirst, as i am just back online, happy new year to everyone!
totally unrelated to the above (or maybe not), it just occurred to me that the unscriptural wt doctrine of "two classes of christians" might have some faint pars veritatis after all as far as the nt is concerned.. of course it is not about "anointed or not," "two hopes," "heaven vs. earth".. yet several segments of early christianity did seem to allow for a huge difference in levels of requirement, vocation, or fate among believers.
on the one hand, the high and hard way of the apostles, disciples, missionaries, evangelists, martyrs; on the other hand, the minimal requirement of the rest.
-
-
Van Gogh
Thanks Narkissos.
I must, of course, admit that my perspective on your question and Christianity is still very much subjective and is still colored by traditional idealism to say the least. Of course I know way too little about the bare irrational facts that hence need to be "rearranged" by a kind of spiritually induced common sense and intuitive reasoning.
I have learnt a lot yet again tonight, particularly also from the comments made by Terry. I never imagined that finding out that the core of the WTS is based on pseudo-logic, falsehoods, and distortions, if not outright lies and deception, would also by definition, to a large extent, invalidate most of what can be accepted as fact in the Scriptures. If you apply true common sense and logic to the WTS and JWism, it logically follows that these must also be applied to the Bible and even God himself.
This ongoing realization is what has come as a great surprise to me as I always understood that becoming, for example, an atheist, after leaving the WTS, was proof that trust had been placed in men rather than God from the start, and that one simply had never truly believed in the Bible God from the start. As it is, it turns out that it is exactly that, what I have been doing al along. A shocking look in the mirror!
I am, of course, obligated to educate myself on this subject. Although previously revered "truths" are evaporating for me rapidly now, I would like to express that I find the increase in unanswerable questions to be somewhat of a relief from a rigid belief system that never allowed any. I like it.A pact with the Devil..?